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© 2012 Sanjeev Sabhlok's revolutionary blog
I was very disturbed when the US Ambassador to Libya was killed recently because of a movie made by some weird, unknown person. That was wrong. Very wrong.
I am – and remain – a staunch advocate of freedom of speech and fully agree that the US government should NOT have the power to compel Google to remove the video that is causing so much grief across the world.
Instead, I'm all for self-regulation. Google should realise that by publishing this OBNOXIOUS film on youtube, it is implicitly lending its weight to the film. Publishers do become complicit (in some way) in the opinions they publish.
I urge publishers to NOT publish seriously defamatory and inflammatory material.
The so-called "movie" (I just saw snippets of it) is seriously defamatory and inflammatory. It is FALSE, OBNOXIOUS and WRONG in EVERY WAY.
Mohammed had many good qualities, and Islam has contributed enormously to human progress.
To publish such obnoxious material on Youtube is wrong.
While the US government does not have the power to ask Google to remove this video, Google should use good judgement and REMOVE this obnoxious "film" immediately.
In saying this, I totally oppose and condemn the violence that some Muslims are engaging in, but I fully understand what they are feeling.
It is WRONG to seriously distort the story of someone's highly regarded beliefs.
This is not a "movie", but a HATEFUL distortion of the truth. It must go from Youtube. Whether it is then made available by private web hosts is a different matter. But it should go from Youtube. At least let the Muslims of the world know that Google doesn't support such TERRIBLE SMEARING of their prophet.
The problem here is that the person being smeared falsely is long dead. Mohammed can't come back to defend himself. But he is being libeled and shown falsely. That is simply not done in civilised society. The producer of the film would have been liable for civil damages had Mohammed been alive.
At a minimum, Google should stop defaming Mohammed.
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To spread the message of liberty and critical thinking, please share this post
Google, please pull down the obnoxious film against Mohammed. At once!! http://t.co/67CR48t0
Google, please pull down the obnoxious film against Mohammed. At once!! http://t.co/PTyP4UWx #currentaffairs
Haha http://t.co/nsuWQUx1
What’s the matter when you protested against the Hindus for demanding to pull down the “obnoxious” video on Sita?
My point is “being offended” is a highly subjective phrase. One cannot measure it. And so, what is the limit? Who determines what is hateful and what is not?
Tomorrow, you asking for NOT banning D.N. Jha’s controversial book about cow could be termed as HATEFUL by some Hindu groups (note that I’m against banning it too) because the book deeply offends their beliefs.
Again, if you believe govt. must keep its hands away from banning stuff, would you instead support Hindu groups rallying against publishers/stores from keeping the book in stock? That’s similar to banning it.
haha muhammad had good qualities? and islam has contributed to humanity? Well maybe but the harm they have cause, the harm they all have caused negates it all!
You should read some passages from bible and koran etc. or harris’s book ‘the end of faith’
sam harris on muhaamad : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7juZdh0XvQ
and asking google to take it down is ridiculous – doesn’t that equate to google performing self censorship to please a group of humanity who can’t put a point forward without blowing, burning, killing people!
It is ridiculous to believe that the violence in Libya (against the US embassy) and other incidences of violence are because of any movie or clip which actually is a hoax and nothing more.
All this violence was preplanned. The US has attacked people, the US government have killed civilians. Obviously, it was act of retaliation but not against the movie, but against the US.
Just 10-12 days ago of the violent Incidence, The US has attacked people, the US government have killed civilians. Obviously, it was act of retaliation but not against the movie, but against the US.
Here is my take on the issue.http://rationallibertariancorner.com/current-affairs/the-movie-on-prophet-muhammad-and-violence-against-us-embassies.html
Naming Google or any movie and blaming it for all this is like saving the killer, the US army and its Militarism.
Harsh, have you seen this video? It is NOT scholarly. It is NOT a discussion. It is a BLATANTLY FALSE and seriously derogatory enactment of things that did not exist. This is sheer viciousness. Pl. see it if you don’t believe me!
Pl. don’t compare with Jha’s work which was scholarly, which offered a discussion, and HUGE amount of facts.
Finally, I’ve condemned MF Hussain’s work which, to me, was mischievous, and did not add any value to a discussion or debate.
s
Allwyn
I’m afraid I’ve read very widely and extensively on Islam, so won’t have time to watch a mere video. Do read DOF for a brief discussion on the contributions of Islam. I’d encourage you to read as widely and extensively as you can. Open your mind. For at least ten years. Research. Then decide.
s
Pl. see my response to Harsh Vora. This is WILFUL, MISCHIEVOUS FALSIFICATION. It is hateful. It is libellous. It is FALSE!!
I condemn this video and condemn google for allowing it on their property.
s
Gargi, you may have a point, but I’m trying to deal with the issue of Google. Not the bigger issues. Just between me and google. Not that google is listening. But I’m asking google to do the right thing.
Sanjeev Sabhlok,
You are also missing a very important point.
Laws and Individual Rights Cannot stand on Emotions,
Libel and defamation laws are strictly against Individual Rights. No proponent of Individual rights (be it Classical Liberal or Libertarian or Objectivist) can support Libel and Defamation laws on any ethical ground.
Freedom of Speec is paramount and if someone is spreading false information, the only moral and ethically correct way is to counter it through correct information. Banning, deleting, restricting is not the correct way.
I don’t think Google will deny allowing any video confronting this video and ridiculing/criticizing it and proving it that it is WRONG.
So, here is my request, Don’t attack Freedom of Expression/Speech on the name of libel/defamation laws. It will lead you to support actions against people like Aseem Trivedi.
A dead man can’t defend slander and libel. Mohammed is now available to defend.
Google is letting a dead man be BADLY slandered. The dead man can’t sue Google.
But that doesn’t mean google is right. There is no freedom without accountability.
s
Banning the movie makes no sense. It is about freedom of speech. Because some people are inciting violence in the name of this movie, does not mean that movie is hateful or slanderous! Such lunatics will find another excuse- in the midst of something perfectly legitimate also- to incite violence.
a) I’m asking the movie to be removed, not banned. No role for government in this.
b) If I make a movie named after someone’s father (who, for simplicity sake, assume is dead in which I show all sorts of FALSE things that he did not do, and then I hire a pornographer to make that movie, then put on youtube. Is that freedom of speech?
Freedom to lie? Freedom to besmirch a dead man?
No.
I don’t advocate ABSOLUTE freedom. Only freedom with accountability.
This is not a criminal case but surely google knows that it is promoting SERIOUS LIES about Mohammed.
its shocking your entire article doesn’t even hold the protesters and trouble makers responsible or accountable, doesn’t tell them to “chill relax and take it easy” and to anything but only google!
and you use “TERRIBLE SMEARING of their prophet.” as if you really believe that he got some msgs from heaven or outer space for that matter from a invisible man. I have read a few books and watched quite lot of talks also gone through verses in the koran maybe you should too.
Pl. read my tweet a few days back. I interchange between blog /twitter. Of course I condemn those who use violence. They should be thoroughly punished.
That said, I’m quite clear that this is a case of defamation. Had Mohammed been alive, Google would have gone insolvent by now, paying for damages. There is no freedom to libel. I trust you see the point.
If you have differences with Mohammed, please have them through civilised discourse – but not by BLATANT FALSIFICATION of facts.
I don’t see what the issue is:
1) Govt. obviously has no role and thankfully no one is suggesting that
2) Individuals/groups can request youtube to pull down material and even consider voluntary boycott if it doesn’t oblige
3) as a private owner, youtube has every right to decide what it allows or disallows on its site. It has to consider various factors like: traffic/long term brand impact, the cost and difficulty of devising a black and white policy that will apply in all situations without risking its reputation, the owner’s own morality and principles, etc.
No policy will please all but I suspect Google has figured that a hands off approach is the safest and most lucrative for itself and, arguably, in the best long-term interest of the world at large.
unfortunately, Google’s near monopoly in this business leaves very little choice for the users though
There are millions of websites that can (if they wish) host this video, too. My request (to remove this video) is made to everyone. This is not a matter for government but for us, citizens of this world to directly deal with the relevant party.
Sanjeev,
Its very disappointing that such kind of post is coming from you.
Free speech always hurt sentiments.
It goes against the status quo.
The question is not about this stupid video(i have seen it).
But the question is that are muslims so innocence that they will kill people just for a stupid film?
In that case doesn’t the title of the movie ‘Innocence of Muslims’ perfectly right?
Cartoonists make fun of politicians which are corrupt and anti-people.
Why can’t the same freedom be allowed to the film maker who may have some problem with muslims? I consider it my right to make fun of such primitive religion and tradition.
Agreed that perhaps it offended some muslims.So does the Quran.The Quran has specific injunctions which is defamatory to other religions .I want the same rule applied to the Quran so that it can be banned .
Instead of banning videos ,it is time for muslims for self-reflection and consider that why are they so insensitive.First it was Salman Rushdie,then Ibn Warraq,then Ayan Hirsi Ali etc etc and the list goes on.
Tilopa
Where did I call for any government intervention?
I’ve asked google to remove it. It is a private entity.
s
Sanjeev:
Your asking Google to remove it is tantamount to ban! If Google “removes” it, it has in other words “banned” it. Remove = Ban. For all practical purposes, it is the same thing.
Liberty is being jeopardized by removing the video.
Munish pl. see this: https://twitter.com/sabhlok/status/247852999840526336
I’m NOT asking government to remove. I’m asking google, as one private entity to another.
I was planning a detailed comment here but then I came across this video : http://www.deeshaa.org/2012/09/20/word-pat-condell-to-rioting-muslims/
by Pat condell who says it as it IS. So I invite Sanjeev and all the previous commenters and future visitors to watch this 5min video. i.e if this is allowed here and sanjeev doesn’t go about writing another request letter to google to take it down.
On another note I would especially invite you, sanjeev to watch the video and think about it because a line in the post says “muhammad had good qualities!” and ask you if you in your islam research did not come across how harmful, mind numbing, oppressive, LIBERTY SNATCHING islam has proved for firstly its FOLLOWERS themselves secondly the entire wolrd!
Allwyn
I form my own views after extensive research, and don’t have to rely on others after that has been done. Clearly you haven’t read my extensive critique of Islam in DOF.
I’m NOT defending Islam or ANY religion. I’m ANTI-RELIGION!! I’ve always said that.
What I’m saying is that there is a huge difference between an academic debate on such matters and libel/distortion/slander.
Please try to understand (if possible! since you are going on like a broke record) that there is liberty to DISCUSS, not to SLANDER.
Do read DOF before writing again.
s
again you talk about “slander” – you have taken a very hypothetical situation of muhammad being alive in fact in the next post you have argued for defamation rights of ‘maa durga’ – a definitely imaginary figure. So I don’t see the point of discussing this any further. Whatever happened to “Imagination is not a good driver of policy. ”
https://twitter.com/sabhlok/status/238129978305282048
Allwyn
I did NOT seek defamation rights against dead people. I don’t think that is appropriate.
But yes, I am asking for class action rights by parties that claim to be affected. That’s not a defamation right, but right to compensation for any demonstrated loss incurred (e.g. loss of sleep for one night, worth a few cents or dollars per person in the class action suit).
s